Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:05 Hi, everyone. Welcome to identity crisis. A show about a news and ideas from Michelle and Hartman Institute. Um, you had occurred, sir, president of shell heartbeat is to North America. We're recording today's episode on Thursday, October 29th. And the episode is being released the day before or election day 2020. This is a moment as I know, many of us are experiencing of profound uncertainty in the span of a past week through the various Supreme court cases. There's a tremendous amount of uncertainty about how long election day will actually continue. How long will the counting of ballots be allowed to continue at different state levels and on a national level. And as a result, we don't only not know who's going to become president United States. We don't even know what the timeframe will be for which to determine who becomes president United States. Of course, all of this takes place in the context of a global pandemic.
Speaker 1 00:00:54 And I will say on a very personal level, there is a more of a sense of deep uncertainty about totally different directions about where this country could be going far more than I can ever remember in my own lifetime. One of the things that I've been thinking about in anticipation of this uncertainty and heading forward, and it provides me with some reassurance and maybe you as listeners will feel this as well is understanding and remembering that most of what's going to happen in the future is going to be shaped by those who live in the future. In other words, that a lot of anxiety about what the future will bring, uh, stems from the fact that a, obviously we don't know what it will be, but also we don't know what our role is with respect to bringing that about. We don't know what role we will play and for how long we will do.
Speaker 1 00:01:37 So. And I will say on a personal level, I have felt really encouraged both by Jewish tradition here, but also the experience of watching what might be a bit of a civics boom in the next generation of Americans and for us in the Jewish community of the folks who are growing up and coming of age right now, who don't have the same historical memory to say, well, I remember when it was pre Nixon, what it was going to look like, but this is their dominant experience. My 14 year old niece has been spending 30 to 40 hours a week canvassing in her spare time. Uh, my 12 year old is making phone calls. My 14 year old is involved with political club in his school. In other words, the uncertainty of the present moment is actually catalyzing a tremendous amount of enthusiasm, creativity, and real recognition by the next generation of Americans and American Jews, that the future actually sits in their hands.
Speaker 1 00:02:25 And so in this spirit, we're going to do something a little different today and identity crisis. And that is over the course of this past summer at the Hartman Institute, when we knew that many Jewish camps, uh, Israel trips and other programs were canceled for so many teens, we had Hartman ran experimental program for teens, our emerging thought leader program. We invited teams from around the country in partnership with a whole bunch of camps to spend five, six weeks together with us learning, talking, doing capstone projects about the Jewish people, its challenges and his future. We were blown away. I think we had 270 teens participate in that for six weeks. I think they learned a lot. We learned an enormous amount. It was a really moving experience for a lot of our faculty and all of it took place on zoom. And tonight I'm thrilled to be joined by three of our team.
Speaker 1 00:03:10 Emerging thought leaders in the Jewish community. Dahlia is a senior at Keala Jewish high school in Palo Alto. California layout is a student at Highland park high school in Highland park, Illinois. Tyler is a student at Heiman brand Hebrew Academy in Overland park, Kansas. I can't tell you how happy I am that none of you are from the New York area. So we defy certain stereotypes about where Judaism is located, where the Jewish community is. And I'm thrilled that you're here with me on a school night to talk a little bit about America, our future, and your role in it. So the first question I want to ask, all of you is I want you to reflect a little bit on your own political consciousness that you've come of age in some ways in this administration, certainly more than any others, you know, the four years of this administration and represents a meaningful percentage of your life. So far. I curious how you think, uh, these past four years, this period of American polarization, how do you think that's affected your own political consciousness and how you think of yourself as a Jew or as an American or both? Yeah. What about you?
Speaker 2 00:04:12 My experience as a Jew under this administration, it's been very interesting to stay the least. And I think the biggest issue for me under this administration is that it's a validated a lot of intergenerational trauma. And so I'm kind of a weird case. I'm not directly related to any Holocaust survivors, but my parents and my grandparents are all kind of paranoid. And after Trump was elected, it was a lot harder to brush off. It's a lot harder when they say, you know, we need passports or, you know, we need to make sure all of our other documents are in order. And I remember learning my grandfather who passed away, actually collected gold coins in case of, um, a quick escape. And when I first heard that I was horrified, but as we reached the end of Trump's first term, hopefully his last term, I think of it as a smart idea. And I hate that. I really do,
Speaker 1 00:05:15 But you, Tyler can talk a little about your own political consciousness, your own kind of coming of age as a Jew in America, in the last few
Speaker 3 00:05:22 As a Jew and as a Jew of color doubly. So this administration has not represented the America that I've recognized when I was younger, Obama was my president. And I remember even though I was younger, I still remember his victory speech in which he said change has come to America. And I thought that change did come to America and that people like me could be represented in the world in a positive light. And then the stark contrast that has come from the end of his term into Trump's term. And I don't politics is not a place where morals and human rights should be debated. It's not up for debate. And yet we find ourselves in 2020 in the aftermath of George Floyd, Brianna Taylor, I can go on and on. And these are not the Jewish values. These are not the human rights values that I cherish. And I can definitely say that when Trump was elected, I knew that something was bad, but I was in middle school and my political awareness was not where it is now. And now after years of what has felt a very, very long time in a dark place in American history, I can say that we are at a turning point now, and I hope that this is just a mere blip in American history and that what we cherish as American Jewish values and what we champion can be shown in the outcome of this coming election.
Speaker 1 00:06:52 So I really appreciate that, Tyler, I guess I want to stay with you if I can, for a second, which is, um, and it's one thing, it's a piece that I'm struggling right now because race-based violence proceeded the Trump administration, and it will probably outlive the Trump administration, regardless of who wins the presidential election. We have problems with structural injustice and racism in this country. We have enormous debate about things like immigration policy. The Obama administration has huge blind spots when it came to its own immigration policy, some of which the Trump administration didn't have to change. They just absorbed and continued. So when you speak about, you know, the moral clarity, I want my politics to represent my morals. We're talking about a country where, where there's real, real social divisions among Americans who don't see themselves as I'm the, the immoral team who actually would also say I have a different moral worldview in a moral vision.
Speaker 1 00:07:46 And especially since all of you come from one side of the political aisle here, I'm curious how you see the future of, of really reckoning with, and being in relationship with other Americans who will vote differently than you, including plenty of other young people and plenty of young American Jews who will grow up turn 18 and would vote for Trump. How do you see the future of your relationship with not just those who agreed with you, but those who, who don't agree with you, let me go back in the other direction. So Tyler, let me stay with you.
Speaker 3 00:08:12 That's an excellent question. And an excellent point, because I can say from personal experience in the last month, or so there have been some divisions within my own class and that I go to a Jewish private school, and even there, there are divisions. And that one of the main ones that I would say is that we have lost in this current administration. And maybe even before then the ability to have discourse, because there's so much rhetoric being thrown around and trigger words in tweets and all of that, that we don't even know like what we're trying to argue anymore. It's just that my side is right. The other side is wrong. There are no, and
Speaker 4 00:08:56 That can go for either side, but I don't stand for that. I want to be able to have a conversation where you're able to rationalize your thoughts and your opinions. And I feel like that's something.
Speaker 1 00:09:08 Yeah. What about you, Leah? How do you see the future of being able to wrestle with certainly members of your own community, but even beyond that other Americans who have not come to conclusion after four years of Trump, that a, there shouldn't be another four years of Trump. Um, but also who feel that when they make these arguments they're doing from a place of equal amounts of sincerity about their moral commitments.
Speaker 2 00:09:30 I agree with Tyler about the depth of American discourse, and that is something that's really hard for me to see because I'm Jewish and my parents are both attorneys. So I've grown up my entire life with loving to talk and debate. And the fact that, you know, adults can't seem to do that anymore is kind of frightening. But in terms of relationships with people who really think president Trump is right, I don't see myself having a relationship with that because as a person who is decidedly, not heterosexual, I don't want to spend time with someone who thinks my rights are negotiable or thinks that I'm disgusting. And also as a Jew, I don't want to spend time with someone who can rationalize, you know, there are good people on both sides, whether it's in Charlottesville or protest against police brutality, between white militias and protesters. Like I just, I don't have it in me just to put that effort in. I'd rather spend it with people on my side in trying to improve the
Speaker 1 00:10:40 Great. And what about you Italia? How do you see this play out when you started with a very passionate statement about how you see the world and what makes you upset? And I'm curious how you, and I'm sure also in a Jewish high school, you know, Jewish high schools are interestingly bi-partisan places. There's a lot of stuff going on. Partly because kids are mirrors of their parents, but also because kids are forming their own political identities. How do you see the future of being able to actually sit across the table? Or is that just not desirable to you with other Americans and other Jews who see this very differently?
Speaker 4 00:11:10 I mean, I've struggled, I've grown a lot in my political opinions through high school. And I think ultimately the most important thing to breed is this ability to be in discourse with the voices I disagree with in it. It's something I'm learning, it's an ongoing process. I'm definitely not perfect at it. And I come into every conversation with a lot of assumptions, but in general, Trumpians politics feed off fear and fear of the other division. And honestly, by being able to step into the room and just be there with someone who I know will vehemently disagree with me on certain issues. I mean, I try to see it from their side. I seek out news on Fox, even though I'm cringing, but at the same time, I need to understand like the abortion argument from the other side, because I can understand the pro-life position, even if it's here at play, it's visceral. And it makes me upset. I'm trying to think about it and trying to rational and not even rationalize, but genuinely just understand where is this born? I am connected to my religious texts. How is someone in that position connected to their religious texts? And then where can we find some kind of unity? And at a certain point, you can't build unity with hate, but at the same time, I feel like the hate doesn't have to fester. If at least I can be willing to step into the room and try to have the conversation.
Speaker 1 00:12:20 You know, Larry, you said something interesting before. I would love for you to, to go a little further on it, which he said, you know, adults can't seem to talk to each other. And I'm very struck by that because one of the questions I wanted to ask, all of you is what do you see as different in your generation politically, or in terms of your political identities than maybe your parents or grandparents generation. Can you unpack that a little bit further? What do you think that high school kids are better at talking across difference than what actually exists out there in an older adult spaces?
Speaker 2 00:12:47 I think it's easier for me to talk to another high school student because of our kind of shared culture that we have automatically more things in common. We kind of have the same style of humor or influenced by pop culture in the same way, versus someone of a different generation where there are so many like small generational differences that really, really add up. But I think as a whole high school students can talk to each other. I think most of the people I know are really articulate and willing to listen to other people. I think there are definitely people on both sides who are very extreme and don't want to listen or to talk if they're not talking about what they believe in. But I think as a whole, I've been very impressed with my generation, our voter turnout, as you said, campaigning for Biden or for other various elected officials. And I think there's a lot of hope for our generation. So it does bother me that older people can't seem to get it together. And that they're saying stuff like there's no hope for our future because I think that's absolutely wrong.
Speaker 1 00:13:56 Yeah, it's so interesting because older adults tend to have the exact opposite stereotype of younger people that they are completely distracted by things like social media, that there've been helicopter parents to the point that they're just mirroring their parents' politics, but you're actually making the counter argument. And, you know, I've seen it too in my house. I mentioned before my son's a freshman in a Jewish high school and he and his whole grade is on a WhatsApp chat and they were arguing about politics and the 15 kids who were most passionate decided to just get on a zoom meeting together and have a political debate. And I don't know if it was all civil, but I was like, I don't see a lot of adults doing that saying, you know, my neighbor is a Trump voter and I'm a Biden voter. Let's sit across the table and actually debate it out.
Speaker 1 00:14:37 But for some reason, these high school kids, they, because they realized that they're actually in it together. In some ways, we're like, we'd better find a way to do that. I'm curious, Tyler, if you've had any experiences over the last few years where you've encountered somebody, you know, with totally different politics and because of maybe Layla was saying about generational proclivities or for any other reason, you've been able to actually meet in some way across time difference, that could be instructive for those of us looking to your generation of Jewish life to lead the way.
Speaker 3 00:15:04 Yeah, it's definitely. So I remember in 2018 with the midterm elections that my school was very active in our community and that we had rallies to get the vote out, not for any particular candidate or anything just to vote in general for midterms, since the turnout for that, wasn't generally as high as for presidential election. And yet the house was won by Democrats because of that election. And so I think that definitely in classrooms and like a good example is my English class this past year, we just read between the world and me by Ta-Nehisi coats. And he is a very opinionated writer and there were debates in class about race and as the only person of color in that class, it's very interesting if not disheartening, what I hear, because there are people that side with me, there are people that don't, but the difference is, is in that sense, is that people, my age, their views are still molding.
Speaker 3 00:16:01 Nothing's ingrained like adults are today. And I think that's one of the main differences is that views are still forming. Like I know from the past summer in Hartman, I still don't know what to think about these really Palestinian conflict. I'm not sure I ever will because there's just so many different sides to it. And really that can be applied to American politics. There is no absolute, no one is absolutely right. And one is absolutely wrong, but it's working. We reach across the aisle more than the aisle. Where can we just like reach out to our fellow humans to try to connect and like better ourselves instead of find ourselves so divided to the point of where we're debating about who has rights and who doesn't and like who has the power to take those away.
Speaker 1 00:16:44 Mm. And what about you Talia? I know you're also in a Jewish high school. I suspect that on a certain set of political issues in Palo Alto, you probably have a community of consensus, but there may be other areas, other issues, certainly on Israel politics. I know in that community, there's a lot of division and it might even be such that those who have certain set of Israel politics are Trump voters because they actually like his policies in Israel. So I'm curious if you've found yourself in communities of difference and what you've experienced or learned. That's been useful about those types of encounters.
Speaker 4 00:17:13 I mean, it's true. I think the Bay area is interesting because by and large it's highly progressive, but then you have this old guard, Zionist fear, and then Trump is held up, is a way to address that. So in my school, there's a lot of division because everyone feels like the other side is so omnipresent. There's a sense that when we discuss the Israeli Palestinian conflict, if we're having a conversation about Israel, we're siding with one side over the other to validate is real, is to validate Trump. It's devalued. All Trump stands for it. If I did, it puts me in this weird position because obviously I believe in Israel's existence, I believe it's complex. And I don't think it's perfect. I don't think it was supposed to be like, no country is supposed to be perfect, but I guess, should I speak to like what we get wrong about how young people are dealing with difference?
Speaker 1 00:17:55 I'm curious about what that experience has felt like, and whether there have been moments where you've felt that you've been able to connect with or understands people of your own age bracket of your own generation in ways that are different from the kind of culture of partisanship or polarization that's out there.
Speaker 4 00:18:10 I mean, I've learned how to understand those sides in a way. I don't think I would have learned to otherwise because being a progressive Zionist, it's kind of constantly toggling and refusing to box myself into any one group. I mean, I don't think Israel should ever be a litmus test for politics and for general ideology. And I've kind of learned that in order to really live that out, I need to be willing to mediate and to sit in a room and have a conversation with my administration who disagrees with Mira, with students who think I'm not coming to bat for Israel enough because I'm willing to talk about Palestinians and the conflict I've found allyship in places I didn't expect. And it's honestly kind of what builds you up when you feel like everything you've been doing is it's not going anywhere. People are too divided and you learn also that you can lead by example.
Speaker 4 00:18:54 And even if you mess up, sometimes it's okay to go back up there and say, I need to talk about this a second time, or it's time for me to reframe. And I've learned to be open with my community because just in the way my school has panned out, I've been the person driving Israel conversations, and I've made a lot of mistakes. And I've also learned how to go up there. And as part of living out this ability to just hold all points in conversation, come back up and say, I spoke about this wrong. I'm going to try to say this again in a way that I think that it reflects more perspectives.
Speaker 1 00:19:23 Uh, it's really admirable. And it's one of the things that I think we lose a lot with our politicians who can rarely seem to kind of backtrack or say, well, you know, let me try that again. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:19:32 Sally is right on basically all the points. And I just wanted to add that what I think is special about our generation, just because we're younger, we're a lot more flexible and it's a lot easier for us to say, I used to believe in this, but now I believe in that. And this is why I changed. Like it's less embarrassing. I think for people to say, Oh, I used to have a really hardcore if you won this, but things have changed or I admit that I was wrong. And I think that makes such a difference because I think for adults, it's a little embarrassing to say like, Oh my views change, or to sound uneducated. And I know with my own parents educating them on a lot of different topics, especially the LGBTQ community. It was very hard for them to say like, what I used to think was wrong and learning a whole new set of values or ideas. But when I see their pride and saying, I used to not get this, but now I do that makes me really hopeful just for the world in general.
Speaker 1 00:20:33 Fantastic. That's like educational skills. Let me ask you a different question, which is a little less about politics, but more about the Jewish community, because you will not only inherit our political culture, but the Jewish community is something that gets handed down from generation to, in that it becomes your responsibility. I'm curious what you think, the current generation kind of in charge of Jewish life, the one that shapes priorities that makes decisions for the future. What do you think they're getting? Right. And what do you think they're getting wrong about what your generation of Jews wants out of Jewish life? What are your priorities of Jewish life? What are your needs as the Jewish community? What do you think is missing that you'd like to see more of in the Jewish community based on your own interests. Tyler, I'll start with you
Speaker 3 00:21:12 Definitely say that in the Jewish community. I think as I've come to recognize this, as I've gotten older and I'm still learning to this day, I never stopped learning this, that there are definitely more, there are more differences and divisions than I perceived there once was. And not just because of current politics, but if we look at history, there's always been divisions within our own community. But what I don't like to see is that when we take it upon ourselves to differentiate between one another based off of what we perceive to be right, such as a Torah, averse, Talmud, Israel, and that's not what I think is a Jewish value. What I think is a Jewish value is being able to argue, but also be able to recognize that within other Jews we see ourselves and that we wouldn't want to be treated like that or put down like that.
Speaker 1 00:22:04 Yeah. Go ahead. Dahlia. What do you think? What do you think that people are missing or misunderstanding about your generation of Jews?
Speaker 4 00:22:10 They don't always understand that we want to be taken seriously. I, and one of my favorite moments of October was getting an email from Hartman that I could go to a session with Dahlia Lithwick we want to learn, we want to be a part of these conversations. We don't need things dumbed down. We don't need to be babies. We are obviously like teenage hood is liminal and we're learning a lot of things. We're kind of constantly reassessing our views, but when we're treated with a certain measure of respect and this general sense, like you have something to contribute to the conversation as well. And even regarding tradition and reevaluating Jewish tradition, if we're given that kind of authority, we want to buy into the future. And one of the challenges I think with like, it's just kind of declining, like Jewish engagement among young adults is that they were kind of babies and their Jewish identities. They weren't really treated like they had a seat at the table. And one of the ways we can rectify it for this generation is by actually teaching that we, these twins, they are, they have what to contribute to this reaffirmation of our tradition, to reassessing, to creating something new.
Speaker 2 00:23:11 I totally agree with Tyler and Dalia, that there's always this a struggle with being the youngest person at the table and we want to feel important and we want our contributions to be considered. And I think a big issue with Jewish life right now is that there's been a big focus on connecting people to Israel. And that I think they've nailed it when it comes to secular Zionism. But I think in terms of a reformed conservative renewal, that type of group of denominations, there's been a big problem with connecting people to ritual Judaism because of how hard it is to get a formal Jewish education. So my capstone actually for the Hartman fellowship was about specific prayer education for teens, because there is a lot of stuff that I had to figure out by myself and do it the hard way, but that if someone else had a more practical approach, they could have spared me a lot of years of like, what am I doing?
Speaker 2 00:24:19 And I think that's hard because it just in this country in general, formal Jewish education is really challenging. I've gone to public schools, my entire life from second grade to seventh grade, I went to Hebrew school three times a week for six hours. That's where I learned the fundamentals of Hebrew. And it's really, really hard to pack everything in, to go from a whole day where you're learning so many different subjects and then sit down for two or three hours to focus on something Jewish. And I think our current leadership doesn't recognize that struggle for high school students, especially because high school has gotten harder because of the college admissions process
Speaker 1 00:25:01 In the identity crisis episode from a couple of weeks ago, when I spoke to Arielle angel and Jacob Lipman, the editor and the publisher of Jewish currents, you, one of the things we talked about was that there's a little bit of a myth about progressive Jewish culture as being secular. When one of the big changes is that the bridge has much stronger between political identity and religious identity. And I think you've hit on when you say, actually you have a very strong political voice, Leon, but you're also saying, but I really want to, I want to be in an environment where I'm also learning to be a prayer leader and it's not that politics has evacuated the religious content of my Jewish identity. I want both go ahead, Tyler.
Speaker 3 00:25:37 I definitely agree with Leah and that I feel like there's such a divide in American jury between like religious Judaism and Judaism. That's more affiliated with Israel and where one finds themselves or whether they even agree with that precedent of you have to be in either camp. And I am definitely thankful enough that I've been going to a Heiman brand. I'm entering my 10th year of going there now, and that I have received all that I need to know for prayers. And I've been in Jewish studies classes the entire time that I've been there, I'm able to hold conversations in Hebrew. But something that I have to remember is that I'm not part of a big population when it comes to that in America. And that sometimes divides come from that as well, between being able to understand each other, being able to hold a conversation. And so whether it's learning Hebrew or learning more about Judaism as a religion, and that there's definitely a need to come back to our roots and reevaluate
Speaker 1 00:26:44 On how to learn, how to do
Speaker 2 00:26:45 Jewish today. I think it's important to think about what it means to be Jewish, but I think more importantly, why Judaism is meaningful to you and finding how you as an individual connect. And I think you're spot on Tyler with the idea of the divide. I mean, there are definitely been times in Jewish youth programming where I've been very resentful of my peers where they're like, yeah, I was in calculus. And then I went to Tom wood class and like, to my friend, I'm like Tallwood class, like, ha like you actually have that in school. You don't have to go home and clean and listen to a podcast and try and teach yourself Hebrew by yourself. Like, Oh, you know, you actually know Hebrew grammar. Like that's hilarious. Like, and I try to be positive, but every once in a while, it kind of spills over because everyone views themselves as the norm, whether it's what type of school you went to, your race, your religion. And I think it's thinking out of that, which will make the world a better place and make politics a little bit easier on them.
Speaker 1 00:27:47 Yeah. And you know, there's constant choices that have to be navigated even in Jewish schools. So there is a big divide between the kind of access you get when you're in full-time Jewish education versus not. But even in those contexts of full-time Jewish education, I remember a couple of years ago, I went to do a talk at a Jewish day school in foster city, California. So it's right down the block from where Diane lives, you have to know, by the way that most of the time through work, my audiences are usually like 65 and up, but I was there for the week and they said, can you go speak to the eighth graders at Warnecke? I was like, okay. And they said, okay, you have an hour and a half. I was like, okay, what am I going to do for an hour and a half?
Speaker 1 00:28:23 It turns out that Wornick day school is one of the field leaders in the country around Hebrew language education and the day school. So they're doing unbelievable work in terms of generating language fluency. And part of the reason for that is that half the students come from Israeli families. So they have a headstart in terms of Israeli anise, and they leaned into that. And they're really good at teaching language, but I went to this group of eighth graders and I said to them, your school is really committed to you becoming fluent in modern Hebrew when you graduate, how do you feel about that? And what was extraordinary was that the students, and I can say this, the principal was in the room. We talked about it openly half the students, the ones who have Israeli family said, this is really important. I got to be able to talk to my relatives.
Speaker 1 00:29:01 And the other half of the students said, you know, I'm not sure why we're focusing more on Hebrew language, then Jewish values. So I can figure out how to live a Jewish life in America. And that was such a great window into these are really impossible choices that Jewish education has to make. So lay out, you got six hours a week, which is still a lot for Hebrew school, but what are you going to squeeze into that six hours? You're probably not going to come out as a learner Talmud students at the end of that time, you're going to have to fit it in with your podcast and so forth. So I think it's really challenging for the quote unquote establishment to figure out how to do this. But I think all of you have picked up on a greater sophistication or a complexity between these choices and how you want to shape your own Jewish identities. Go ahead, Tyler. And I think listening a big part too,
Speaker 3 00:29:42 Like before you speak, because I know that at my school, that I'm in Kansas, which to most people, they just think of farmland. And to be honest, I did too, before I lived here, but at my school, we've been thankful enough to host for like an hour and a half sessions like you did Marty Friedman. I believe he wrote spice of know country and Gail Hoffman who was a correspondent for the Jerusalem post. And that now I'm like somewhat in awe that we managed to even get them to our school. And at the time I was just, you know, like, what does this mean? What is this significant in relevance to me? And that I'm still trying to figure that out, but just the fact that like we're able to listen and to hear stories from people and like their experiences, I think is very important too. Like before you have an opinion. So definitely keeping an open mind is important.
Speaker 5 00:30:40 Hi, my name is Sabra Waxman and I'm the senior marketing manager at the Shalom Hartman Institute of North America. I wanted to tell you about an event next week, specifically for high school students. If you're interested in learning with Hartman on November 10th, at 8:00 PM, Eastern we're hosting a conversation and Q and a with slate, senior editor and Hartman, senior fellow Dahlia, Lithwick moderated by Justin Pines, our director of youth and young adults initiatives. The register for this and other upcoming events go to Shalom, hartman.org, backslash events.
Speaker 1 00:31:16 Let me ask you a kind of a lightning round last two questions. The first is I want you to give me one big dream for America a year from now two years from now, we'll leave aside who wins the election we have on record, who you all want to win the election, but give me a bigger dream for America. Something that you wish you'd be able to say as an American, as a Jew. I'm really proud that this is now a feature of America in a way that I wasn't sure was going to be a couple of years ago. Let's start with you, Leah.
Speaker 2 00:31:41 I want to see an America that is not only inspired by American ideals, but puts them in action. And that in America, where we're proud of our dedication to democracy, to human rights, to freedom, and in America where people just in general feel more United and we celebrate our differences instead of making a bigger wedge between us and mostly, I just want to see an America where people are happy, because right now it's very discouraging. And I think everyone has kind of run out of steam. And I want to see an America where people kind of have that energy back and that excitement of we're American, where this crazy country that's split off from Britain and, you know, wrote this thing called the constitution and that, you know, our basic staying out of many, we are one and that we're this country not only made up of smaller nations, like indigenous nations, but of so many different cultures and languages. And I want us to look at that as a country and go, wow. And I want that to inspire us as we move forward.
Speaker 1 00:32:55 Okay. Give us a dream for America.
Speaker 4 00:32:58 Yeah, that was very well put, I guess my dream is that we're going to find a way in political circles to thread the needle between the establishment and the young generation. I think a lot of our division right now is between like fairly old guard and fear in the new guard and what does each group represent? And ultimately that's going to be our demise and it's going to be the demise of a lot of political parties. That's going to lead to us like faxing off into these extreme groups. It scares me a lot. I'm a young person who wants to get involved in politics. And I don't see myself necessarily with the older generation, but at the same time, it's kind of this denigration of everything that's been laid by past generations, amongst rising politicians. I mean, I feel really uncomfortable. I don't know. I think a lot of people feel that way as well. I hope we find a way to strike that balance and validate a lot of voices in politics.
Speaker 1 00:33:44 Okay, great. What about you, Tyler?
Speaker 3 00:33:46 I definitely agree with all that's been said, but I would think my dream is, you know, we were touching on this earlier. America is an experiment in democracy and sometimes in experiments, things go right and things don't go right. And so what I want is to be able to learn from past mistakes, whether it be reconciling America's history, slavery, or bad foreign policy decisions made in Vietnam or currently a pandemic that's being downplayed. And that I want us to be able to move forward and learn because the saying that if you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it. That is what I do not want to happen to America. I want us to improve and leave America a better place than we found it that we came to be. And whether this is in our lifetime, our children's lifetime, the next generation's lifetime for when we handed down to them.
Speaker 1 00:34:40 All right, here's the most impossible question I'm going to ask you. So just stay with me. It's 15 years from now. It's not two years from now and you are a Jewish leader one way or another. You already are. You know, one of the advantages of the community that needs leadership is that people who step up and who participate and who are learners, who are active, are leaders. There's no, there's no certificate. There's no graduation. You start doing the work and you are Jewish leader. So mazeltov you're there already, but let's say 15 years from now. Now you're in a formal position of Jewish leadership. You've gone to college. You've maybe gone to graduate school. You started your career. You might be working professionally in the Jewish community. Maybe you went through medical school. You might not. You might have decided that's not for me, but you're an active volunteer or lay leader on your spare time, on your weekend. Tell me what that looks like for you. And one thing you did today that you were proud of Diane I'll make it.
Speaker 4 00:35:29 Oh, I'm afraid to answer that. I really struggle with this question. I see life going in a lot of different directions. I think ultimately it would be my Jewish values
Speaker 2 00:35:38 Feeding into something regarding to a political issues, hopefully something to do with like Israeli Palestinian peacemaking. So I guess if 15 years from now I did something. I was proud of sitting at a round table with Palestinian and Israeli youth writing notes on what they're saying, asking probing questions. Maybe this is an experiment happening at an integrated high school. Maybe it's with younger students, but hearing a lot of different voices. When the conversation made me go South I'll hopefully I'll figure out how to ask the right question by them. That will get things back on track. Maybe I'll never figure that out, but maybe something of that nature.
Speaker 1 00:36:12 Beautiful. Leah, how about you? So
Speaker 2 00:36:14 My general big dream is to be living in Israel, making Alia. And this is totally like this bra has sham. Like I'm working on her right now, but in 15 years, if I had a leadership position, I would want to be a leader of maybe like a traditional, progressive traditional gout, Taren community. And I would want to be working on bridging the religious secular divide in Israel, as well as the, what I call the religious religious divide and bringing people together. So like Dalia, but within Israeli society, because I think in America, we have to kind of support each other to some measure. Like this is what I told my Israeli friends. I'm like, we can't hate other Jews the way you hate other Jews in America. Like that's bad, but I've seen what can happen when people really sit down and think, and see their similarities are inspired by each other to make differences. And I think I could facilitate that amazing Tyler value.
Speaker 3 00:37:16 I could definitely see myself going branching out, down multiple paths. And I think the path that I see currently is it social activists of some type, but not really political, more of like social, like more trying to help get legislation passed and actually passing a legislation. And that whether it's in a Jewish organization or not is really irrelevant to me because what will guide me is my Jewish values as opposed to the name of an organization. And so I want to see my values put into action in a tangible way. And so that I can look back and say that I got XYZ passed and that not only helped other Jews, but just helped people in general. And that's also, I think another big thing is to not exclude other groups while trying to help our own, because I definitely think that that's not a Jewish value and that can sometimes become a problem.
Speaker 1 00:38:14 Well, you told us that your dreams for the immediate future are to see a threading of the gap between the establishment and the next generation, a culture of learning so that we don't keep making the same mistakes and rejecting the lessons of the present for the future. And you talked about a country that is really working on its democracy and something I think later that you said is that people are just happier. I very much, I hear that and identify with there's so much anxiety. I started the beginning of this call with a sense of uncertainty. I'll add onto your blessings that I don't think we need to live in a time of total certainty, but it would be nice to not have so much uncertainty in front of us and wherever you guys wind up landing all of you, whether it's in Israel, whether it's working towards peace between Israelis and Palestinians or between the Jewish people in themselves, whether it's working on social activism for the repair of breaches in our society, both for our benefit and the benefit of others.
Speaker 1 00:39:04 I do hope that whatever you do will be successful, but I also hope that wherever you are 15 years from now, maybe we'll make a time capsule of this. You'll think back to this conversation that you had with the Shalom Hartman Institute podcast, where you were invited to speak to another generation of Jews and to share with them and inspire for them, what a future Jewish conversation could look like. So thank you to Dahlia, to Leah and to Tyler for being with us. And thanks to all of you for listening. Identity crisis is a product of the Shalom Hartman Institute. It was produced this week by Devinsky Kalman and edited by Alex Dylan, managing producers. Dan Friedman with music provided by so-called special. Thanks this week to Justin Pines and Tali Cohen from the shell apartment Institute for helping make this episode possible to learn more about the Shalom Hartman Institute, visit us online, chill, apartment.org. We'd love to know what you think about the show you can rate and review us on iTunes to help more people discover the show. You can also write to us that identity crisis central apartments.org. It's subscribed to our show in the Apple podcast app, Spotify, SoundCloud, audible, everywhere else. Podcasts are available. Folks. This is going to be a hard week. Wishing you good luck. Good fortitude, good health, good safety. We'll see you next week. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 0 00:40:08 <inaudible>.
